Nana's Refinishing Lab - Egret 2/3/AWSD CP & Marquee – Done
- wonderbanana
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Nana's Refinishing Lab - Egret 2/3/AWSD CP & Marquee – Done
Disclaimer: This thread is intended as a series of refinishing 'experiments' so I strongly advise against using any of the techniques until I've refined them or got a decent result. I'm also a professional so I know how to use the various tools safely, I accept no responsibility for anything you do or fingers lost I'm also using bits I can afford to bodge up
The Problem
It's mank! I've cleaned these CP's before when dirty (ill dig the link out later) by just compounding with good results but this one is chipped, very dirty and looks burnt in places too. Can we fix it without spraying? Lets find out!
Other
I've noticed this before on both my old AWSD and the current Egret II, but the CP's don't really have that great a finish. It's shiny but not very smooth. Depending how it goes ill see if I can improve this.
Compounding
For CP's with dirt or just minimal marking, a small amount of compounding can work wonders. I already know by looking this CP needs more than that but I figured I'd give it quick go over anyway. I used a 3" lambswool pad with some medium grade compound.
The result isn't too bad, cleaner though some of the marks (possibly cigarette burns) remain.
It was at this point I made a choice to take it a step further and flat it back. This is potentially a risk as I'm not 100% sure on the material or whether its coated. The upside is though that I could still spray it afterwards if it goes horribly wrong.
I started with some fine grades but this had minimal impact on this surface as expected. 800 grit was better but given the imperfections in the surface I took it to 400 grit.
I didn't get a good close up of this section before but it had burn marks, chips and an odd mottled effect. The 400 grit removes material at an alarming rate, you could very easily 're-shape' your CP using this grade.
It did however make light work of the chip (now gone), the odd lines and mottling as well as the burn marks. I took care to keep it even as its easy to overdo it on this material with this grade. So far so good.
Around the area where the coin sticker sits I was very careful. I used a smaller disc and avoided the edges so as not to affect the recess depth. Had the sticker been present I'd have simply masked this area off to preserve it.
And that so far is as far as I've got! Plan to do some more next week.
Ill finish off the whole panel then bring it back up through the grades of abrasive discs before compounding. I've no idea if it'll work but failing that ill take it in the spray booth for some professional automotive paint (though as per the objective, I want to avoid this if possible).
Well today I set to work working back up through the abrasive grades and then hit it some medium, then fine cut compound. From a distance it looks ok...
But under certain light and as per ninns picture below, you can see an odd crazed effect:
This confirms what I had been worried about - these panels do indeed have a coating. From the structure this is almost certainly a grade of plastic that had been re-enforced with glass fibre to strengthen it. The odd effect is caused by the exposure of the glass fibres.
So I then set about and re-flatted it back to 400. I did try 600 first but you can still see the fibres through the scratch pattern. Oddly at 400 grit the panel looks kinda ok, white and very clean and smooth but of course this isn't the finish we are after.
Based on monouchi's post below, I'm taking this in the spray booth tomorrow to add a clearcoat. I normally wouldn't do this straight on without primer and base, but monouchi's post seems to suggest ill get away with it. Well soon find out! The only difference is I'm keeping it at 400 grit. My automotive brain thinks 1200 is too fine, plus I quite like how good the surface looks at 400.
So into the spray booth and added a clearcoat (Nexa Express).
Final result is not too bad; finish looks as close to stock as I think you'll get using this method - cerainly the 'crazed' effect is no longer there
It's not perfect, needs some fine sanding and compounding to remove a few imperfections but on the whole its ok considering how it started. Theres a couple of marks under the clearcoat where I probably could have sanded a bit more to remove but on the whole I'm happy with the result. I was going to flog this but I think I may keep it as a spare; will post up some pics when its populated
Conclusions
So far I have learnt a few things. There is a coating on these panels and naturally removing it by sanding the surface down will mean it'll need a coating re-applied unless you are happy with the 'fibre effect' finish.
However, that's not to say you can't compound the original coating. Provided its very minor marks or just a clean up as it were, compounding will restore the shine and make the panel look better. You just need to be careful not to overdo it and go through the original coating. Based on what I've done I'd personally avoid sanding at all if you want to achieve this. I know this as I've done it before:
The final effect of going the clearcoat route is quite good as you can see above; it's not 100% stock looking (you can tell the difference in coating in tems of gloss and thickness) but it's close enough and I have not had to colour match any paint since we I have not used any base coat or primer. Part of me wonders whether it'll hold but I can't see why not, it was sprayed directly over 400 grit.
On the Cab!
This is the panel on the cab, looks ok especially taking into account how bad it was when I started
(Sorry about bad light in some pics, lighting in my game room isn't great atm).
Fitting
(Had to change the actual CP after but you an see finish in this pic better)
Fitted
Going to polish up the original one now this is fitted, no lacquer on that though, just a buff up
The Problem
It's mank! I've cleaned these CP's before when dirty (ill dig the link out later) by just compounding with good results but this one is chipped, very dirty and looks burnt in places too. Can we fix it without spraying? Lets find out!
Other
I've noticed this before on both my old AWSD and the current Egret II, but the CP's don't really have that great a finish. It's shiny but not very smooth. Depending how it goes ill see if I can improve this.
Compounding
For CP's with dirt or just minimal marking, a small amount of compounding can work wonders. I already know by looking this CP needs more than that but I figured I'd give it quick go over anyway. I used a 3" lambswool pad with some medium grade compound.
The result isn't too bad, cleaner though some of the marks (possibly cigarette burns) remain.
It was at this point I made a choice to take it a step further and flat it back. This is potentially a risk as I'm not 100% sure on the material or whether its coated. The upside is though that I could still spray it afterwards if it goes horribly wrong.
I started with some fine grades but this had minimal impact on this surface as expected. 800 grit was better but given the imperfections in the surface I took it to 400 grit.
I didn't get a good close up of this section before but it had burn marks, chips and an odd mottled effect. The 400 grit removes material at an alarming rate, you could very easily 're-shape' your CP using this grade.
It did however make light work of the chip (now gone), the odd lines and mottling as well as the burn marks. I took care to keep it even as its easy to overdo it on this material with this grade. So far so good.
Around the area where the coin sticker sits I was very careful. I used a smaller disc and avoided the edges so as not to affect the recess depth. Had the sticker been present I'd have simply masked this area off to preserve it.
And that so far is as far as I've got! Plan to do some more next week.
Ill finish off the whole panel then bring it back up through the grades of abrasive discs before compounding. I've no idea if it'll work but failing that ill take it in the spray booth for some professional automotive paint (though as per the objective, I want to avoid this if possible).
Well today I set to work working back up through the abrasive grades and then hit it some medium, then fine cut compound. From a distance it looks ok...
But under certain light and as per ninns picture below, you can see an odd crazed effect:
This confirms what I had been worried about - these panels do indeed have a coating. From the structure this is almost certainly a grade of plastic that had been re-enforced with glass fibre to strengthen it. The odd effect is caused by the exposure of the glass fibres.
So I then set about and re-flatted it back to 400. I did try 600 first but you can still see the fibres through the scratch pattern. Oddly at 400 grit the panel looks kinda ok, white and very clean and smooth but of course this isn't the finish we are after.
Based on monouchi's post below, I'm taking this in the spray booth tomorrow to add a clearcoat. I normally wouldn't do this straight on without primer and base, but monouchi's post seems to suggest ill get away with it. Well soon find out! The only difference is I'm keeping it at 400 grit. My automotive brain thinks 1200 is too fine, plus I quite like how good the surface looks at 400.
So into the spray booth and added a clearcoat (Nexa Express).
Final result is not too bad; finish looks as close to stock as I think you'll get using this method - cerainly the 'crazed' effect is no longer there
It's not perfect, needs some fine sanding and compounding to remove a few imperfections but on the whole its ok considering how it started. Theres a couple of marks under the clearcoat where I probably could have sanded a bit more to remove but on the whole I'm happy with the result. I was going to flog this but I think I may keep it as a spare; will post up some pics when its populated
Conclusions
So far I have learnt a few things. There is a coating on these panels and naturally removing it by sanding the surface down will mean it'll need a coating re-applied unless you are happy with the 'fibre effect' finish.
However, that's not to say you can't compound the original coating. Provided its very minor marks or just a clean up as it were, compounding will restore the shine and make the panel look better. You just need to be careful not to overdo it and go through the original coating. Based on what I've done I'd personally avoid sanding at all if you want to achieve this. I know this as I've done it before:
The final effect of going the clearcoat route is quite good as you can see above; it's not 100% stock looking (you can tell the difference in coating in tems of gloss and thickness) but it's close enough and I have not had to colour match any paint since we I have not used any base coat or primer. Part of me wonders whether it'll hold but I can't see why not, it was sprayed directly over 400 grit.
On the Cab!
This is the panel on the cab, looks ok especially taking into account how bad it was when I started
(Sorry about bad light in some pics, lighting in my game room isn't great atm).
Fitting
(Had to change the actual CP after but you an see finish in this pic better)
Fitted
Going to polish up the original one now this is fitted, no lacquer on that though, just a buff up
Last edited by wonderbanana on May 2nd, 2013, 3:07 pm, edited 24 times in total.
markedkiller78 wrote:that's probably my best contribution to the forum to date "I am pluralising fanny"
- wonderbanana
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Re: Nana's Refinishing Lab - Part 1 - Egret/AWSD CP
Part 2
Egret 2/3/AWSD Marquee
The Problem
It's scratched! Quite a few minor scratches and several heavy ones. Luckily it's not cracked so it should be easy to sort.
Other
The marquee is in two sections. One thicker solid section and one which is thinner and flexible. The heavy scratches are in the solid section so ill tackle that first and then give the thinner section a minor buff to remove any light scratches. Material appears to be Acrylic and I separated the two sections before I started. At this stage I'm not planning on sanding the thinner section.
Rectification
Acrylic is fairly easy to rectify. Start off with 1500 grit and get sanding!
Scratches starting to vanish now. Target the deeper scratches more and don't hit areas with no scratches much, just makes more work later. A few sections I did by hand as it was easier than trying to get the DA in there. In the past at shows doing this one people have often been shocked thinking the surface is ruined...
It's not of course...
I hit the surface with some medium grade dry use compound using a foam waffle pad. Starting to come up now and I can start to see any scratches I've missed and re-work those areas if required.
Still got to polish out the sanding marks as well which you can't see in the pic below (can't pick up on camera). Ill then use a fine compound to bring it up some more. Hopefully do one more tomorrow.
So today I cracked on, re-sanded a couple of sections by hand to lose a few scratches I missed. A little tip, if your struggling compounding your flatting marks out, use some finer grades over the top. So 1500 to start, go over that with 2000 and then you can even use 3000 to finish. Makes compounding much easier, especially if your trying this by hand.
Final compound with medium grade to kill the last of the scratches.
Getting there...
Final compounding with fine compound and a soft pushing foam to remove as many swirl marks as possible.
And done! It's not perfect but its pretty bloody good and probably as good a one as you'll find unless its new. Will make a new owner happy soon I hope!
I then started on the second section of the marquee which is much more flexible. Pushed for time I made an error here by removing the (considerable) scratches with 1500. This removed the scratches well but because the surface is more flexible, the flatting marks are harder to remove when compounding even when using the 2000 > 3000 method. It'll still work but is just going to need far more compounding and if I did it again I'd probably start at 2000. Still nearly there...
Update:
The flexible section of the marquee is an absolute pig to compound! Its almost 'rubbery' which makes flatting marks very difficult to remove. I did some work with a customer years ago on a similar material and it was a pain then too.
Finally found a combination of a 6" lambswool pad and a specialist industrial compound I knocked up to do the job but even that takes time. Most of the marks are gone now, theres a few minor scratches I missed on the edges but I'll probably leave those now, overall it's still pretty good. Should have finished today or Friday
Update 2:
And it's done I may leave my own one for a while, that last bit was hard work! It's not perfect and there's still a couple of marks there but it's good enough. Finished off with fine compound on a lambswool pad then the same compound on a black polishing foam.
The two pieces re-united:
Quite happy overall, would maybe tackle the flexible section slightly diferently next time but other than that I'm quite happy.
And here's the finished article on top of Cool's sexy Egret 3:
Egret 2/3/AWSD Marquee
The Problem
It's scratched! Quite a few minor scratches and several heavy ones. Luckily it's not cracked so it should be easy to sort.
Other
The marquee is in two sections. One thicker solid section and one which is thinner and flexible. The heavy scratches are in the solid section so ill tackle that first and then give the thinner section a minor buff to remove any light scratches. Material appears to be Acrylic and I separated the two sections before I started. At this stage I'm not planning on sanding the thinner section.
Rectification
Acrylic is fairly easy to rectify. Start off with 1500 grit and get sanding!
Scratches starting to vanish now. Target the deeper scratches more and don't hit areas with no scratches much, just makes more work later. A few sections I did by hand as it was easier than trying to get the DA in there. In the past at shows doing this one people have often been shocked thinking the surface is ruined...
It's not of course...
I hit the surface with some medium grade dry use compound using a foam waffle pad. Starting to come up now and I can start to see any scratches I've missed and re-work those areas if required.
Still got to polish out the sanding marks as well which you can't see in the pic below (can't pick up on camera). Ill then use a fine compound to bring it up some more. Hopefully do one more tomorrow.
So today I cracked on, re-sanded a couple of sections by hand to lose a few scratches I missed. A little tip, if your struggling compounding your flatting marks out, use some finer grades over the top. So 1500 to start, go over that with 2000 and then you can even use 3000 to finish. Makes compounding much easier, especially if your trying this by hand.
Final compound with medium grade to kill the last of the scratches.
Getting there...
Final compounding with fine compound and a soft pushing foam to remove as many swirl marks as possible.
And done! It's not perfect but its pretty bloody good and probably as good a one as you'll find unless its new. Will make a new owner happy soon I hope!
I then started on the second section of the marquee which is much more flexible. Pushed for time I made an error here by removing the (considerable) scratches with 1500. This removed the scratches well but because the surface is more flexible, the flatting marks are harder to remove when compounding even when using the 2000 > 3000 method. It'll still work but is just going to need far more compounding and if I did it again I'd probably start at 2000. Still nearly there...
Update:
The flexible section of the marquee is an absolute pig to compound! Its almost 'rubbery' which makes flatting marks very difficult to remove. I did some work with a customer years ago on a similar material and it was a pain then too.
Finally found a combination of a 6" lambswool pad and a specialist industrial compound I knocked up to do the job but even that takes time. Most of the marks are gone now, theres a few minor scratches I missed on the edges but I'll probably leave those now, overall it's still pretty good. Should have finished today or Friday
Update 2:
And it's done I may leave my own one for a while, that last bit was hard work! It's not perfect and there's still a couple of marks there but it's good enough. Finished off with fine compound on a lambswool pad then the same compound on a black polishing foam.
The two pieces re-united:
Quite happy overall, would maybe tackle the flexible section slightly diferently next time but other than that I'm quite happy.
And here's the finished article on top of Cool's sexy Egret 3:
Last edited by wonderbanana on May 2nd, 2013, 3:08 pm, edited 18 times in total.
markedkiller78 wrote:that's probably my best contribution to the forum to date "I am pluralising fanny"
- wonderbanana
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Re: Nana's Refinishing Lab - Part 1 - Egret/AWSD CP
Reserved.
markedkiller78 wrote:that's probably my best contribution to the forum to date "I am pluralising fanny"
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Re: Nana's Refinishing Lab - Part 1 - Egret/AWSD CP
As far as I know, the "coating" on this material is called gelcoat. It is part of the process in that the surround is created.
I removed the gel-coat on my fron part of the surrond with sandpaper too. Just to get rid of the deep marks. I used a lot of different smooting techniques to get it smooth again. The wierd thing is, that you can still see the kinda crystaline structure of that material.
Took me 30 pictures till i found an angle that works to photograph them (light from below on this one).
You can not see that structure with while playing, - you need good lightning and extreme macro to even spot it.
Do you see that structure too?
I removed the gel-coat on my fron part of the surrond with sandpaper too. Just to get rid of the deep marks. I used a lot of different smooting techniques to get it smooth again. The wierd thing is, that you can still see the kinda crystaline structure of that material.
Took me 30 pictures till i found an angle that works to photograph them (light from below on this one).
You can not see that structure with while playing, - you need good lightning and extreme macro to even spot it.
Do you see that structure too?
- wonderbanana
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Re: Nana's Refinishing Lab - Part 1 - Egret/AWSD CP
Cheers, if its gel coat it should come up fine, I must admit I wasn't sure as it seemed softer than I expected (or perhaps more accurately, what im used to) though composites do vary.
The way gel coat is made often means the surface is never perfect (its why people compounding their boats often complain of 'pin holes', its not the compound, just the material they remove exposes the inconsistencies in the layer) though personally I think the finish on these CP's is rough but no surprise really given what they are.
The way gel coat is made often means the surface is never perfect (its why people compounding their boats often complain of 'pin holes', its not the compound, just the material they remove exposes the inconsistencies in the layer) though personally I think the finish on these CP's is rough but no surprise really given what they are.
markedkiller78 wrote:that's probably my best contribution to the forum to date "I am pluralising fanny"
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Re: Nana's Refinishing Lab - Part 1 - Egret/AWSD CP
I was just asking, cause your 7ths picture looks a lot like it got a very similar effect now.
(edit) when i removed mine, it felt a lot like chalk.
(edit) when i removed mine, it felt a lot like chalk.
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Re: Nana's Refinishing Lab - Part 1 - Egret/AWSD CP
My 7th pic looks dull from the sanding, it's still scratched with 400 grit.ninn wrote:I was just asking, cause your 7ths picture looks a lot like it got a very similar effect now.
(edit) when i removed mine, it felt a lot like chalk.
Assuming there was no light coating it should lose that effect after I complete the last step (polishing with rubbing compound). I intend to bring it back through the grades with abrasive paper first which will improve but it won't lose that effect entirely.
I'd be interested to know what your final step step was. Your picture looks like a close up of a glass fibre blend. I won't really know the answers till I finish, this is part restoration, part playtime for me ATM
Last edited by wonderbanana on March 23rd, 2013, 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
markedkiller78 wrote:that's probably my best contribution to the forum to date "I am pluralising fanny"
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Re: Nana's Refinishing Lab - Part 1 - Egret/AWSD CP
sandpaper, starting from 400 to finally 1200, finishing it of every now and then with magic eraser. It is very smooth.
No idea what I should have done next.
Just wanted to show you, maybe you can work with that info.
No idea what I should have done next.
Just wanted to show you, maybe you can work with that info.
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Re: Nana's Refinishing Lab - Part 1 - Egret/AWSD CP
No that's useful budninn wrote:sandpaper, starting from 400 to finally 1200, finishing it of every now and then with magic eraser. It is very smooth.
No idea what I should have done next.
Just wanted to show you, maybe you can work with that info.
I suspect yours will come up more but until I finish I won't know tbh. I'm just about to Google Magic Eraser, I have no idea what that is!
markedkiller78 wrote:that's probably my best contribution to the forum to date "I am pluralising fanny"
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Re: Nana's Refinishing Lab - Part 1 - Egret/AWSD CP
Nice work thus far. Please don't ruin it.
My games: http://www.emphatic.se
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Re: Nana's Refinishing Lab - Part 1 - Egret/AWSD CP
It's a spare, not my main oneemphatic wrote:Nice work thus far. Please don't ruin it.
I've got some other stuff planned for the future too including taking scratches out of marquees etc. that should be fairly easy since I've worked with acrylic loads in the past....
...at caravan shows...
markedkiller78 wrote:that's probably my best contribution to the forum to date "I am pluralising fanny"
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Re: Nana's Refinishing Lab - Part 1 - Egret/AWSD CP
I used 400 grit on mine and then 1200 and then a clear coat plus piano polish.
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Re: Nana's Refinishing Lab - Part 1 - Egret/AWSD CP
That looks really awesome dude!
I like the silver rings round the sticks, are they custom?
I like the silver rings round the sticks, are they custom?
markedkiller78 wrote:that's probably my best contribution to the forum to date "I am pluralising fanny"
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Re: Nana's Refinishing Lab - Part 1 - Egret/AWSD CP
Franco B custom.wonderbanana wrote:That looks really awesome dude!
I like the silver rings round the sticks, are they custom?
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Re: Nana's Refinishing Lab - Part 1 - Egret/AWSD CP
Just out of curio, did you apply the clearcoat straight onto the 1200 sanded panel?monouchi wrote:I used 400 grit on mine and then 1200 and then a clear coat plus piano polish.
markedkiller78 wrote:that's probably my best contribution to the forum to date "I am pluralising fanny"
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Re: Nana's Refinishing Lab - Part 1 - Egret/AWSD CP
wow looks great any chance of a close up to see the finish ?monouchi wrote:I used 400 grit on mine and then 1200 and then a clear coat plus piano polish.
alos the top one looks like it has wall paper in it
<trk>:I remember catching a big fat one and my friend said "throw it back in, that one already tastes like wood"
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Re: Nana's Refinishing Lab - Part 1 - Egret/AWSD CP
Updated
markedkiller78 wrote:that's probably my best contribution to the forum to date "I am pluralising fanny"
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Re: Nana's Refinishing Lab - Part 1 - Egret/AWSD CP
Certainly isemphatic wrote:Silkworm is
Didn't get in the oven today with the CP but I did make a start with the marquee
markedkiller78 wrote:that's probably my best contribution to the forum to date "I am pluralising fanny"
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Re: Nana's Refinishing Lab - Part 1 - Egret/AWSD CP
Added progress on marquee rectification to date in post 2
markedkiller78 wrote:that's probably my best contribution to the forum to date "I am pluralising fanny"